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Section 226

SOCRATES. Or do you suppose a horseman who knows a horse is worthless would expect to make a profit by giving it worthless food?

COMRADE. I do not.

SOCRATES. Nor a pilot who furnishes his ship with worthless sails and ropes?

COMRADE. Not at all.

SOCRATES. Nor a general who knows his army is worthless?

COMRADE. By no means.

SOCRATES. Nor a flute-player with worthless flutes, nor a lyre-player with a worthless lyre? Would any of these, knowing their instruments to be worthless, expect to make a profit from them?

COMRADE. Apparently not.

SOCRATES. Then who are these lovers of gain you are talking about? For it surely cannot be these men who, knowing the things to be worthless, yet expect to make a profit from them. And so, my friend, according to your account, there are no lovers of gain anywhere.

COMRADE. But I mean, Socrates, those who, out of insatiable greed, always aim at things that are worthless, and from these things they constantly expect to make a gain.

SOCRATES. But surely not knowing them to be worthless, my excellent friend. For we just proved by argument that this is impossible.

COMRADE. I agree.

SOCRATES. And if they do not know it, it is clear they are ignorant, and they think the worthless things are valuable.

COMRADE. That seems to be the case.

SOCRATES. Now, the lovers of gain love gain, do they not?

COMRADE. Yes.

SOCRATES. And gain, you say, is the opposite of loss?

COMRADE. Yes.

SOCRATES. Is it a good thing for anyone to suffer loss?

COMRADE. For no one.

SOCRATES. Is it a bad thing?

COMRADE. Yes.

SOCRATES. So people are harmed by loss?

COMRADE. They are harmed.

SOCRATES. Loss is therefore an evil?

COMRADE. Yes.

SOCRATES. And gain is the opposite of loss?

COMRADE. Yes.

SOCRATES. So gain is a good thing?

COMRADE. Yes.

SOCRATES. So you are saying that the lovers of gain are those who love the good.

COMRADE. It seems so.

SOCRATES. Well, you are not calling the lovers of gain madmen, my friend. But what about you yourself? Do you love the good, or not?

COMRADE. I do.

SOCRATES. Is there any good thing that you do not love, but rather an evil thing?

COMRADE. No, by Zeus.

SOCRATES. You love all good things alike?

COMRADE. Yes.

SOCRATES. Ask me the same question, and I will also admit that I love the good. But besides you and me, do not all the rest of mankind seem to love the good and hate the evil?

COMRADE. They do appear to.

SOCRATES. And we agreed that gain is a good thing?

COMRADE. We did.

SOCRATES. On this reasoning, then, everyone appears to be a lover of gain; but on the previous reasoning, no one was. So which argument should one follow to avoid making a mistake?