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Section 127

Socrates. What then? Could a woman agree with a man concerning heavy-armed fighting, not having learned it?

Alcibiades. Certainly not.

Socrates. For you would perhaps say that this is a man's learning.

Alcibiades. I would.

Socrates. Therefore there are women's learnings, and men's learnings, according to your argument.

Alcibiades. How could there not be?

Socrates. Therefore in these things at least there is no agreement between women and men.

Alcibiades. No.

Socrates. Nor indeed friendship, if friendship was agreement.

Alcibiades. It appears not.

Socrates. So insofar as women do their own things, they are not loved by their husbands.

Alcibiades. It seems not.

Socrates. Nor indeed are husbands by their wives insofar as they do their own things.

Alcibiades. No.

Socrates. Therefore cities are not well inhabited in this way, whenever each does their own things?

Alcibiades. I think they are, Socrates.

Socrates. How do you mean, when friendship is not present, the presence of which we said makes cities well inhabited, but otherwise not?

Alcibiades. But it seems to me that friendship arises in them precisely according to this, that each does their own things.

Socrates. It did not just now; but how do you say it again now? Does friendship arise without agreement arising? Or is it possible for agreement to arise concerning things about which some know and others do not?

Alcibiades. Impossible.

Socrates. And do they do just things or unjust things, whenever each does their own things?

Alcibiades. Just things; how could they not?

Socrates. So when the citizens do just things in the city, does friendship not arise among them towards one another?

Alcibiades. It again seems to me to be necessary, Socrates.

Socrates. What on earth then do you mean by the friendship or agreement concerning which we must be wise and of good counsel, in order that we may be good men? For I am unable to learn what it is or among whom it exists; for sometimes it appears to be present in the same people, and sometimes not, according to your argument.

Alcibiades. But by the gods, Socrates, I do not even know myself what I am saying, but I risk having for a long time been in a most shameful state without realizing it.

Socrates. But one must have courage. For if you had perceived you were suffering this at fifty years old, it would have been difficult for you to take care of yourself; but now the age you are at is the very one in which one must perceive this.

Alcibiades. What then must one who perceives it do, Socrates?

Socrates. Answer the questions asked, Alcibiades; and if you do this, if god wills, if one must trust my divination at all, both you and I shall be in a better state.

Alcibiades. This shall be, as far as my answering is concerned.