Soc. And so far as is better, too?
Alc. So far.
Soc. And at such time also as is better?
Alc. Certainly.
Soc. But again, when one sings, one has sometimes to accompany the song with harping and stepping?
Alc. Yes, one has.
Soc. And at such time as is better?
Alc. Yes.
Soc. And so far as is better?
Alc. I agree.
Soc. Well now, since you applied the term better
to the two cases of harping for accompaniment of a song and close wrestling, what do you call the better
in the case of harping, to correspond with what in the case of wrestling I call gymnastic? What do you call the other?
Alc. I do not understand.
Soc. Well, try to copy me: for my answer gave you, I think, what is correct in every instance; and that is correct, I presume, which proceeds by rule of the art, is it not?
Alc. Yes.
Soc. And was not the art here gymnastic?
Alc. To be sure.
Soc. And I said that the better Footnote 1Socrates means by better
or the better way
the general method of attaining excellence in any art. in the case of wrestling was gymnastic.
Alc. You did.
Soc. And I was quite fair?
Alc. I think so.
Soc. Come then, in your turn—for it would befit you also, I fancy, to argue fairly Footnote 2Socrates here repeats καλῶς (which means handsomely as well as correctly) in allusion to Alcibiades’ good looks. Cf. Plat. Alc.1 113b —tell me, first, what is the art which includes harping and singing and treading the measure correctly? What is it called as a whole? You cannot yet tell me?
Alc. No, indeed.
Soc. Well, try another way: who are the goddesses that foster the art?
Alc. The Muses, you mean, Socrates?
Soc. I do. Now, just think, and say by what name the art is called after them.
Alc. Music, Footnote 3Music
with the Greeks included poetry and dancing as well as our music.
I suppose you mean.
Soc. Yes, I do. And what is that which proceeds correctly by its rule? As in the other case I was correct in mentioning to you gymnastic as that which goes by the art, so I ask you, accordingly, what you say in this case. What manner of proceeding is required?
Alc. A musical one, I suppose.
Soc. You are right. Come then, what is it that you term better,
in respect of what is better in waging war and being at peace? Just as in our other instances you said that the better
implied the more musical and again, in the parallel case, the more gymnastical, try now if you can tell me what is the better
in this case.
Alc. But I am quite unable.