Soc. Then tell me, will it be when the Athenians are taking advice how they are to do their writing correctly that you are to stand up and advise them?
Alc. Upon my word, not I.
Soc. Well, about strokes on the lyre?
Alc. Not at all.
Soc. Nor in fact are they accustomed to deliberate on throws in wrestling either at the Assembly.
Alc. No, to be sure.
Soc. Then what will be the subject of the advice? For I presume it will not be about building.
Alc. No, indeed.
Soc. For a builder will give better advice than you in that matter.
Alc. Yes.
Soc. Nor yet will it be about divination?
Alc. No.
Soc. For there again a diviner will serve better than you.
Alc. Yes.
Soc. Whether he be short or tall, handsome or ugly, nay, noble or ignoble.
Alc. Of course.
Soc. For on each subject the advice comes from one who knows, not one who has riches.
Alc. Of course.
Soc. And whether their mentor be poor or rich will make no difference to the Athenians when they deliberate for the health of the citizens; all that they require of their counsellor is that he be a physician.
Alc. Naturally.
Soc. Then what will they have under consideration if you are to be right in standing up, when you do so, as their counsellor?
Alc. Their own affairs, Socrates.
Soc. Do you mean with regard to shipbuilding, and the question as to what sort of ships they ought to get built?
Alc. No, I do not, Socrates.
Soc. Because, I imagine, you do not understand shipbuilding. Is that, and that alone, the reason?
Alc. That is just the reason.
Soc. Well, on what sort of affairs of their own do you mean that they will be deliberating?
Alc. On war, Socrates, or on peace, or on any other of the state’s affairs.
Soc. Do you mean that they will be deliberating with whom they ought to make peace, and on whom they ought to make war, and in what manner?
Alc. Yes.
Soc. And on whom it is better to do so, ought they not?
Alc. Yes.
Soc. And at such time as it is better?
Alc. Certainly.
Soc. And for so long as they had better?
Alc. Yes.
Soc. Now if the Athenians should deliberate with whom they should wrestle close, and with whom only at arm’s length, and in what manner, would you or the wrestling-master be the better adviser?
Alc. The wrestling-master, I presume.
Soc. And can you tell me what the wrestling-master would have in view when he advised as to the persons with whom they ought or ought not to wrestle close, and when and in what manner? What I mean is something like this: ought they not to wrestle close with those with whom it is better to do so?
Alc. Yes.