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Section 108

Socrates. And also as many times as is better?

Alcibiades. As many.

Socrates. And also at the time when it is better?

Alcibiades. Certainly.

Socrates. But must one who is singing also sometimes play the lyre to accompany the song, and step in time?

Alcibiades. Yes, he must.

Socrates. Then at the time when it is better?

Alcibiades. Yes.

Socrates. And as many times as is better?

Alcibiades. I agree.

Socrates. What then? Since you named "better" in both cases, both in playing the lyre to accompany the song and in wrestling, what do you call the "better" in playing the lyre? Just as I call the "better" in wrestling "gymnastic", what do you call the former?

Alcibiades. I don't understand.

Socrates. But try to imitate me. For I answered, I suppose, that it is that which is always correct; and surely what is according to the art is correct, is it not?

Alcibiades. Yes.

Socrates. And the art was gymnastic, wasn't it?

Alcibiades. How could it not be?

Socrates. And I said that the "better" in wrestling is gymnastic.

Alcibiades. Yes, you did say that.

Socrates. And didn't I speak well?

Alcibiades. It seems so to me.

Socrates. Come then, you too—for it would be fitting for you too, I suppose, to converse well—tell me first, what is the art by which one plays the lyre and sings and steps correctly? What is the whole thing called? Are you not yet able to say?

Alcibiades. No, indeed.

Socrates. Try it this way: who are the goddesses whose art it is?

Alcibiades. Do you mean the Muses, Socrates?

Socrates. I do. See then: what name does the art derive from them?

Alcibiades. You seem to mean music.

Socrates. I do mean that. What then is the thing done correctly according to this art? Just as in the other case I told you that what is according to the art correctly is gymnastic, what do you say it is here? How is it done?

Alcibiades. Musically, it seems to me.

Socrates. You speak well. Come then, what do you name the "better" in making war and the "better" in being at peace? Just as in the other cases you called the "better" thing, on the one hand, more musical, and on the other, more gymnastic; try to say what the "better" is here too.

Alcibiades. But I have no idea at all.