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Section 107

Socrates. Will you then, when the Athenians are deliberating about letters, how they should write correctly, stand up to advise them then?

Alcibiades. By Zeus, not I.

Socrates. Well, when they deliberate about striking notes on the lyre?

Alcibiades. By no means.

Socrates. And they are not accustomed to deliberating about wrestling holds in the assembly, either.

Alcibiades. Certainly not.

Socrates. When, then, are they deliberating about what? For surely not when they deliberate about house-building.

Alcibiades. No, indeed.

Socrates. For a builder will advise better than you about these things.

Alcibiades. Yes.

Socrates. Nor when they deliberate about divination?

Alcibiades. No.

Socrates. For a diviner again is better at this than you.

Alcibiades. Yes.

Socrates. Whether he is small or large, beautiful or ugly, and furthermore whether he is of noble or common birth.

Alcibiades. How could he not be?

Socrates. For advice, I suppose, comes from the one who knows about each thing, not from the one who is rich.

Alcibiades. How could it not?

Socrates. And whether the advisor is poor or rich, it will make no difference to the Athenians when they deliberate concerning the affairs in the city, such as how they might be healthy; but they will seek a physician to be the advisor.

Alcibiades. Naturally.

Socrates. When they are looking into what, then, will you stand up as one who will give correct advice?

Alcibiades. When they are deliberating about their own affairs, Socrates.

Socrates. Do you mean about shipbuilding, what sort of ships they ought to build?

Alcibiades. Not I, Socrates.

Socrates. For I suppose you do not know how to build ships. Is that the reason, or something else?

Alcibiades. No, that is the reason.

Socrates. But about what sort of their own affairs do you mean, when they deliberate?

Alcibiades. When they deliberate about war, Socrates, or about peace, or some other of the city's affairs.

Socrates. Do you mean when they deliberate with whom they ought to make peace, and with whom to go to war, and in what manner?

Alcibiades. Yes.

Socrates. And they must do it with those with whom it is better?

Alcibiades. Yes.

Socrates. And at the time when it is better?

Alcibiades. Certainly.

Socrates. And for as long a time as is better?

Alcibiades. Yes.

Socrates. If then the Athenians were deliberating with whom they ought to wrestle, and with whom to engage in close combat, and in what manner, would you advise them better, or the wrestling-master?

Alcibiades. The wrestling-master, I suppose.

Socrates. Can you then say what the wrestling-master would look to in advising them with whom they must wrestle and with whom not, and when, and in what manner? I mean something like this: must they wrestle with those with whom it is better, or not?

Alcibiades. Yes.