Str. By the same method I think all that is different and alien and incompatible has now been eliminated by us from the science of statesmanship, and what is precious and akin to it is left. Herein are included the arts of the general and of the judge and that kind of oratory which partakes of the kingly art because it persuades men to justice and thereby helps to steer the ship of state. Now in what way shall we most easily eliminate these and show him whom we seek alone by himself and undisguised?
Y. Soc. Clearly we must do this somehow.
Str. Then if it is a question of trying, he will be shown. But I think we had better try to disclose him by means of music. Please answer my question.
Y. Soc. What is it?
Str. Shall we agree that there is such a thing as learning music and the sciences of handicraft in general?
Y. Soc. There is.
Str. And how about this? Shall we say that there is another science connected with those, which tells whether we ought or ought not to learn any one of then?
Y. Soc. Yes, we shall say that there is.
Str. And shall we agree that this is different from those?
Y. Soc. Yes.
Str. And shall we say that none of them ought to have control of any other, or that those sciences should control this one, or that this should control and rule all the others?
Y. Soc. This should control those others.
Str. You mean that the science which decides whether we ought to learn or not should control the science which is learnt or teaches?
Y. Soc. Emphatically.
Str. And the science which decides whether to persuade or not should control that which can persuade?
Y. Soc. Certainly.
Str. Well, then, to what science shall we assign the power of persuading a multitude or a mob by telling edifying stories, not by teaching?
Y. Soc. It is, I think, clear that this must be added to rhetoric.
Str. But the power of deciding whether some action, no matter what, should be taken, either by persuasion or by some exercise of force, in relation to any person, or whether to take no action at all—to what science is that to be assigned?
Y. Soc. To the science which controls the sciences of persuasion and speech.
Str. And that would, I think, be no other than the function of the statesman.
Y. Soc. A most excellent conclusion.
Str. So rhetoric also seems to have been quickly separated from statesmanship Footnote 1Cf. 303 C. as a different species, subservient to the other.
Y. Soc. Yes.
Str. Here is another function or power; what are we to think about it?
Y. Soc. What is it?
Str. The power of determining how war shall be waged against those upon whom we have declared war, whether we are to call this a science or not a science?
Y. Soc. How could we think it is not a science, when generalship and all military activity practise it?
Str. And the power which is able and knows how to deliberate and decide whether to make war or peace, shall we assume that it is the same as this or different?
Y. Soc. If we are consistent, we must assume that it is different.