Now do you know who dive boldly into wells?
I do; divers.
Is this because they have knowledge, or for some other reason?
Because they have knowledge.
And who are bold in going to war on horseback—those who are practised horsemen, or those who are not?
Practised horsemen.
And who with bucklers—buckler-men, or those who are not?
Buckler-men: and so with all other cases, he went on, if that is your point; those who have knowledge are bolder than those who lack it, and individually they are bolder when they have learnt than before learning.
But you must have seen at times, I said, persons who are without knowledge of any of these affairs, yet behaving boldly in each of them.
I have, he said, and very boldly too.
Then are these bold ones courageous also?
Nay, that would make courage a base thing, he replied; for those you speak of are out of their senses.
What then, I asked, do you mean by courageous men? Surely the same as bold men?
Yes, I do still, he said.
Then these men, I went on, who are so brave, are found to be not courageous but mad? And in those former cases our wisest men are boldest too, and being boldest are most courageous? And on this reasoning, wisdom will be courage?
You do not rightly recall, Socrates, what I stated in replying to you. When you asked me whether courageous men are bold, I admitted it: I was not asked whether bold men are courageous. Had you asked me this before, I should have said—Not all.
And as to proving that courageous men are not bold, you have nowhere pointed out that I was wrong in my admission that they are. Next you show that such persons individually are bolder when they have knowledge, and bolder than others who lack it, and therewith you take courage and wisdom to be the same: proceeding in this manner you might even take strength to be wisdom. On this method you might begin by asking me whether the strong are powerful, and I should say Yes
; and then, whether those who know how to wrestle are more powerful than those who do not know how to wrestle, and whether individually they are more powerful when they have learnt than before learning, and I should say Yes.
And on my admitting these points it would be open to you to say, by the same token, that according to my admission wisdom is strength.