Fr. I do.
Soc. And is it a good thing for anyone to suffer loss?
Fr. For no one.
Soc. Rather an evil?
Fr. Yes.
Soc. So mankind are harmed by loss.
Fr. They are harmed.
Soc. Then loss is an evil.
Fr. Yes.
Soc. And gain is the opposite of loss.
Fr. The opposite.
Soc. So that gain is a good.
Fr. Yes.
Soc. Hence it is those who love the good that you call lovers of gain.
Fr. So it seems.
Soc. At least there is nothing mad, my friend, about lovers of gain, as you describe them. But tell me, do you yourself love, or not love, whatever is good?
Fr. I love it.
Soc. And is there anything good that you do not love, or must it then be evil?
Fr. Upon my word, nothing.
Soc. In fact, I expect you love all good things.
Fr. Yes.
Soc. Well now, ask me on my side whether I do not likewise: for I shall agree with you, for my part, that I love good things. But besides you and me, do you not think that all the rest of mankind love good things, and hate evil things?
Fr. It appears so to me.
Soc. And we admitted that gain is good?
Fr. Yes.
Soc. On this new showing, everyone appears to be a lover of gain; whereas, by our former way of arguing, no one was a lover of gain. So on which of the two arguments are we to rely, in order to avoid error?
Fr. What has to be done, I think, Socrates, is to conceive the lover of gain rightly. The right view of the lover of gain is that he is one who concerns himself with, and thinks fit to make gain from, things from which honest men do not dare to make gain.
Soc. But you see, my sweet sir, we have just admitted that making gain is being benefited.
Fr. Well, what of that?
Soc. There is the further point we have admitted in addition to this—that all men wish for good things always.
Fr. Yes.
Soc. Then good men likewise wish to have all gains, if these are good things.
Fr. Not those gains from which they are bound, Socrates, to suffer harm.
Soc. By “suffer harm” do you mean “suffer loss,” or something else?
Fr. No, I mean just “suffer loss.”
Soc. Well, do men suffer loss from gain or from loss?
Fr. From both; for they suffer loss from loss and from wicked gain.
Soc. Pray now, do you consider that any useful and good thing is wicked?
Fr. I do not.