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Section 407

SOCRATES. But indeed it would be shameful for me not to endure when you are eager to help; for it is clear that recognizing in what way I am worse and better, I shall practice and pursue some things, and flee others with all my might.

CLEITOPHON. You shall hear. For I, Socrates, associating with you was often astounded hearing you, and it seemed to me you spoke most beautifully beside other men, whenever rebuking men, like a god upon a tragic machine, you sang saying: Whither are you carried, men? And are you ignorant doing nothing of what is necessary, you who concerning money have all zeal how it shall be yours, but concerning your sons to whom you will hand these things down how they shall know to use these things justly, you neither find teachers for them of justice, if indeed it can be taught—and if it must be practiced and trained, those who will sufficiently train and make them practice—nor indeed even before did you thus care for yourselves. But seeing that you yourselves and your children have sufficiently learned letters and music and gymnastics—which indeed you consider to be a complete education of virtue—and then nevertheless become bad concerning money, how do you not despise the present education nor seek those who will stop you from this lack of music? And yet it is because of this disharmony and laziness, but not because of a lack of measure in the foot against the lyre, that both brother to brother and cities to cities, acting without measure and harmoniously towards one another, factionalize and warring do and suffer the utmost things. But you say that the unjust are unjust not through lack of education nor through ignorance but willingly, and then again you dare to say that injustice is shameful and hated by the gods; how then indeed could anyone willingly choose such an evil? Whoever is weaker, you say, than pleasures. Therefore is this also involuntary, if indeed conquering is voluntary? So that from every way the argument takes injustice to be involuntary, and that every man privately and all cities publicly together must make more care than now. Therefore, Socrates, whenever I hear you often saying these things, I very much admire and wonderfully praise them. And whenever again you say what follows this, that those who practice their bodies, but have neglected their soul do another such thing, neglecting the ruling part, but having been zealous concerning the part to be ruled. And whenever you say that whatever someone does not know how to use, it is better to leave the use of this; if indeed someone does not know how to use eyes nor ears nor the whole body, for this one neither to hear nor to see nor to use any other use of the body is better than to use it in any way.